In this video of Greg Boyd's first lecture on Friday morning, April 26, Greg discusses the importance of waking up to the “the War.” Video shot and edited by Kevin Renel.
The views expressed in this lecture are those of Greg Boyd, not necessarily of The Roberta Winter Institute.
Greg Boyd took the stage in Pasadena last Thursday and Friday (April 25 and 26) in front of a crowd of 160 paid attendees on the campus of the William Carey International University. Boyd—if you don’t know him already—is an impish, intrepid and energentic pastor, author and theologian from St. Paul, Minnesota. He is most well known for losing twenty percent of his congregation because––according to the New York Times––he urged the church to “steer clear of politics, give up moralizing on sexual issues, stop claiming the United States as a ‘Christian nation’ and stop glorifying American military campaigns.” Boyd is also one of the most eloquent proponents of what is known as the warfare worldview, the awareness that “the world is not all physical, not even primarily physical, and certainly not all right. It is, rather, a world that is populated with influential spiritual beings, some of whom are evil, and most of whom are at war with one another.” (Boyd, God at War, p. 13) It was because of this warfare worldview that we invited Greg to be the keynote speaker for the fourth annual Ralph D. Winter Lectureship.
In this video shot and edited by Kevin Renel, Greg shares his testimony and spiritual pilgrimage.
Ralph and Barbara Winter at the Ribbon-cutting ceremony officially opening the Ralph D. Winter Library at Olivet University in San Francisco. Used with Permisson.
In honor of Dr. Winter’s birthday today, (he would have been 88), and as a way to keep his memory alive, I interviewed his widow Barbara Winter. Barbara and her first husband, Dr. George Scotchmer, who died in 1993, knew and supported the Winters for many years prior to Roberta’s death in 2001. Barbara married Dr. Winter in July of 2002 and remained his constant companion through the last seven years of his life. She brought him much joy and facilitated his continuing ministry, helping him to remain highly productive even as his health declined. Barbara carries on his legacy today as a member of the Frontier Ventures, the chair of the Roberta Winter Institute’s Advisory Board, and by archiving over 800 boxes of his personal files.
Brian Lowther: Name three books that influenced Dr. Winter’s RWI thinking.
Barbara Winter:
Brian Lowther: What was the hardest thing Dr. Winter had to give up for health reasons?
Barbara Winter: Working more hours per day. He had to rest a couple hours every afternoon; also speaking more frequently. Before we were married (2002) he had given up soccer following his stroke. Later on he gave up distance walking due to weakness from Lyme disease and multiple myeloma.
Brian Lowther: Which of his qualities did you appreciate most?
Barbara Winter: His solid faith that began in his youth and endured his entire life. He continued to gain new insights from the Bible until the end; his loving commitment to me as his wife and to the rest of his family; his steadiness in the face of pressures; his sense of humor.
Getting folks on board to work at actually eradicating disease, a major work of Satan, thereby enhancing God’s reputation; not just treating disease with more medications.
Brian Lowther: Name one thing the Roberta Winter Institute could do that would have made Dr. Winter intensely proud.
Barbara Winter: Getting folks on board to work at actually eradicating disease, a major work of Satan, thereby enhancing God’s reputation; not just treating disease with more medications.
Brian Lowther: Did Dr. Winter ever grow out a full beard?
Barbara Winter: No, he didn’t even like to have a day’s growth so he shaved even on Saturdays and holidays. He liked modest sideburns, but that’s all.
Brian Lowther: Name a theological idea that Dr. Winter continued to defend until his dying day.
Barbara Winter: Satan is and has been alive and active since before Genesis 1; also the absolute authority and truth of the Bible, God’s word.
Brian Lowther: Describe Dr. Winter’s interest level in sporting events.
Barbara Winter: Very limited since he said that either one team would win or the other!! He enjoyed playing soccer for 30 minutes a day simply for exercise purposes. When in Guatemala he enjoyed watching a neighborhood soccer game occasionally. Watching games on TV he considered a waste of precious time.
Brian Lowther: Is there a skill Dr. Winter wished he had?
Barbara Winter: Being able to sing later in life. As a young man he was forced to sing tenor, which ruined his vocal chords. Other skills he would teach himself if he needed to such as carpentry, electronics, photography, computer programming.
Brian Lowther: What was Dr. Winter’s favorite food?
Barbara Winter: Tamale pie, apple pie; also split pea soup and sardines; root beer float whenever he could get one!
Brian Lowther: What impact did he want to leave on the world?
Barbara Winter: Getting the gospel to all the peoples of the world, not just more missionaries where there were already some serving, do what others either can’t or won’t do.
Brian Lowther: Did he have any quirks?
Barbara Winter: He liked to redesign filing and accounting systems, always finding a better way to do something. We had many clocks because he wanted to be able to see one no matter where he was sitting in our house. He wouldn’t wear shoes or neckties that he had to tie because both were a waste of time. He chewed on his pencil or his right thumbnail when deep in thought. He didn’t like to arrive early at a dinner or meeting because he didn’t like small talk. He loved fixing things with his hot glue gun and also taking time-delayed photos so he could run and get in the picture.
Brian Lowther: How would he finish this sentence?: Life is too short to tolerate ________.
Barbara Winter: Chit chat; computer games, puzzles, TV (except for “60 minutes” which he determined from the opening summaries whether he would watch or not), inefficiency.
When defining disease, many people naturally think of a microbiological explanation, such as: an abnormal condition affecting the body of an organism. But the concept of disease is broader than the microscopic world. Disease can also be social (cultural injustice); it can be structural (political oppression); it can be personal (relational breakdown); it can be spiritual (demonic activity). A response to disease can be specifically microbiological. But that response might be greatly augmented if it grew out of a larger frame of understanding. Perhaps the best way to define disease is to define its opposite: health.
The World Health Organization (WHO) defines health in their constitution as: “a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.” Their definition is a good one, given the WHO’s secular constraints. But perhaps something could be added to acknowledge the spiritual dimension of our existence. Dr. Dan Fountain may have said it best in his book From Health, the Bible and the Church (Wheaton, IL, EMIS/Billy Graham Center 1989):
In the Bible, health signifies a functional wholeness which includes the person, the full spectrum of social relationships involving the person, and how the person relates to God and to the physical environment. The goal of healing is to restore strength and function to all dimensions of this wholeness.
Jeffrey Havenner. Photo by A. Valloza
Jeff Havenner has Bachelor and Master of Science degrees in microbiology from the University of Maryland, College Park. He worked at the Frederick Cancer Research Center at Fort Detrick, Maryland in oncogenic virology. Following that he was directly commissioned in the US Army and worked at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, Department of Rickettsial Diseases. Recently he contacted us through our website. Since then we've had a number of discussions. Below are some of the highlights.
Brian Lowther: Tell me a little about your background.
Jeffrey Havenner: I became a Christian when I was in undergraduate college through the ministry of Campus Crusade. While almost everyone I knew eventually went on staff with them, I went to graduate school and got a masters in microbiology. I have also worked a lot in adult christian education at our church so I've spent quite a few years teaching out of the Bible.
Brian Lowther: Given that all your friends went into campus ministry, what motivated you to pursue microbiology?
Jeffrey Havenner: I actually thought seriously about joining Campus Crusade and took steps to explore taking that route. It became evident that was not the path God wanted me to take. The rest is history as they say. I was very much attracted to the life of Louis Pasteur growing up and saw microbiology potentially as a way to serve mankind by addressing problems of disease. I actually miss working in the field. My wife's brother-in-law is active in aspects of environmental microbiology. He and I have discussions when we get together. This has helped keep me involved in some of what is going on.
Brian Lowther: How did you become acquainted with the Roberta Winter Institute?
Jeffrey Havenner: I just completed the Perspectives Course. That's how I ended up coming across the RWI site.
Brian Lowther: What caught your interest?
Jeffrey Havenner: Dr. Winter raised the question of whether pathogenic microbes such as viruses, bacteria and protozoa constitute a malevolent form of intelligent design. The question becomes are they "of the Devil?"
One consideration could be that the Devil, as an outcome of the curse upon mankind, could have been allowed by God to tamper with microorganisms but I don't think that happened. I think that this gives the Devil too much credit.
Brian Lowther: What's your take?
Jeffrey Havenner: In part the answer to the question is that the Devil corrupts but does not create. One consideration could be that the Devil, as an outcome of the curse upon mankind, could have been allowed by God to tamper with microorganisms but I don't think that happened. I think that this gives the Devil too much credit. Instead I think that over all our genetics have deteriorated as a result of the curse and our susceptibilities to infection have increased evidenced in part from the declining longevities over the generations in Genesis. More likely microorganisms have been able to adapt positively to those changes at our expense.
Brian Lowther: One of my colleagues––a public health consultant in South Korea––thinks almost identically to you in regards to not giving the devil too much credit. Our group is very much a mix of different views compromising around an agreed goal of fighting disease for the glory of God, and we all agree that the devil corrupts but does not create.
Jeffrey Havenner: There are two sides to disease.
What I am suggesting therefore is that the microbes themselves were opportunistic and man became susceptible via the curse that removed nature's cooperation with man.
It is quite possible that since the original disobedience of man in the garden we have become more susceptible to the microbes of God's creation and that is what has become the greater factor in the disease process. What I am suggesting therefore is that the microbes themselves were opportunistic and man became susceptible via the curse that removed nature's cooperation with man.
The Book of the Revelation seems to show us the relationship of increased susceptibility to disease when at the breaking of the fourth seal. "... I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth" (Rev. 6:8 ESV). War and famine weaken populations leaving the more susceptible to plagues and the vectors that carry them. This was quite evident in the influenza pandemic following World War I.
Brian Lowther: I have been debating in my own mind lately the point you suggest about original sin causing our susceptibility to the microbes of God's creation, i.e., perhaps the microbes that make us sick were always there, but weren't harmful to human beings until Adam sinned.
Jeffrey Havenner: Opportunism seems to be much more of what the Devil is about. Therefore resisting diseases seems more to be about decreasing human susceptibility than to look for eradication of the disease-causing organisms. Only smallpox has been eradicated of the major epidemic diseases.
Electron microscope image of smallpox virus (Poxvirus). Used in accordance with Creative Commons. Sourced via Flickr.
Brian Lowther: It seems to me that the eradication of smallpox occurred through the smallpox vaccine, not by destroying the smallpox virus. Is that correct? So, smallpox was eradicated by decreasing human susceptibility, as you suggest. However, I do know that vials of the smallpox virus still exist in the U.S. and Russia. Does that mean that the disease causing organisms were destroyed (other than the two stocks in the U.S. and Russia)?
Jeffrey Havenner: You are right in saying that smallpox was eradicated by vaccination. There appears to be an open question of whether Variola is actually gone from the wild or whether it is merely dormant in attenuated forms and still lurking in the human population. In doing further reading it appears that smallpox vaccine is still being produced and administered. The US Military apparently is still vaccinating its personnel. The feeling seems to be that the virus is out there somewhere.
Actually I have to correct my response to you. As I have continued to read up on Small Pox I find that giving the vaccine has been discontinued from general administration and is no longer required for public health workers because the risk is now considered to outweigh the potential benefit. The source for this is this review from the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. I still think the Army may still be giving the vaccine from what appears on their sites.
Brian Lowther: Other than prayer and funding, in what way do you think the body of Christ could play a role in eradication? Can you envision an organization like One World Health being established by a group of believers with eradication of a specific disease as their goal? Or is this an impossible dream?
Jeffrey Havenner: As far as research on diseases goes, much of that effort is associated with academia which is NOT welcoming to overt Christian participation. Most efforts to do research on disease seem to be based on humanitarian desires to do good and give back. I do believe that a lot of our drive to embrace causes of this kind arises from what might be called memories from Eden that seem to be hard wired into our brains. These appear to go back to God's design of and subsequent command to Adam and Eve to have dominion and to replenish the earth.
A Christian organization dedicated to fighting disease in God's name is definitely not impossible.
Science and theology have been at some odds since the Age of Reason dawned in the 18th Century. Scientists and science students who are motivated by faith in God have faced and continue to face a deep bias against them in academia in favor of humanism. A single mention of creation or "intelligent design" even casually is enough to get one blackballed from many scientific institutes. Thus Christians in the halls of academia tend to be as private about their faith as a convert to Christianity would have to be in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.
A Christian organization dedicated to fighting disease in God's name is definitely not impossible. Initially it might resemble the Institute for Creation Research which does actual science but gets no respect or acknowledgement from the secular scientific community.
Brian Lowther: One of the goals we've considered is trying to fill a need within the public health industry by helping workers integrate their work with their faith, i.e., demonstrate to them how their work glorifies God and brings his will on earth as it is in heaven. Does this seem like a legitimate goal to you? Is this needed? In other words, is an organization needed that would network and encourage believers at work in public health/disease eradication? Or is there already someone doing this?
Jeffrey Havenner: That does seem like a worthy goal. Scientists are under intense pressure to compartmentalize faith in God if they have it and keep it out of scientific practice on pain of exile from the profession if they do not. When I was in graduate school, I was blessed to have a fellow graduate student in the next lab who was also a Christian. We spent quite a bit of time discussing theology as well as science and attended an off campus Bible study together. He was eventually the best man at my wedding. We still keep in touch. I don't know if public health people feel the same degree of pressure. I have another friend in the US Public Health Service that I will be getting together with in a few weeks. I will ask his impression of pressure to compartmentalize faith in that discipline. I will ask him if he is aware of a Christian fellowship of Public Health workers. I believe this gets to your last question as well. I asked my friend who works at NIH about a Christian association of public health workers and he said he was not aware of one.
Scientists are under intense pressure to compartmentalize faith in God if they have it and keep it out of scientific practice on pain of exile from the profession if they do not.
The integration of our faith in God with our work so that God is honored by what we do and by how we interact with people we work with is of great importance. It is easy for people to feel defeated in their walk with God because they feel compromised in the way they are forced to separate work from faith to avoid trouble especially in government settings. Freedom of Religion in America has morphed into the right of freedom from religion.
The Devil, Disease, and Deliverance: Origins of Illness in New Testament Thought by John Christopher Thomas (Cleveland, TN: CPT Press 2011) – This book is a scholarly exploration of the relationship between "the Devil and disease, sickness and sin, healing and forgiveness, and exorcism and deliverance." It’s an essential read for anyone seeking to build a Biblically-sound view of disease and, more importantly, develop a proactive faith-based response to it.
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Greg Boyd's Warfare Worldview: Lecture 1
